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Splat!!

MetroParks

Quote:
TITLE XIII: GENERAL OFFENSES / CHAPTER 137: WEAPONS CONTROL / §
137.01 POSSESSING OR CARRYING WEAPONS IN PARKS.
§ 137.01 POSSESSING OR CARRYING WEAPONS IN PARKS.
(A) No person in a park, except peace officers, shall have in his or her possession any
firearm, switchblade, hunting knife, dagger or other bladed instrument, metal knuckles,
slingshot, or other dangerous weapon.
(B) No person, except peace officers and those authorized to carry concealed weapons
under R.C. § 2923.12, shall carry on or about his or her person, firearms of any description,
knives, bows and arrows, crossbows, air or gas guns, missiles, slingshots or other
missile-throwing devices, except that bows and arrows may be carried in areas designated by the
Director for their use.
(C) Firearms, bows and arrows, knives, air or gas guns, missiles, slingshots or other
missile-throwing devices or any snares or traps brought into a park may be confiscated by peace


Not looking good..................

Five Rivers Metro parks...................Dayton, Ohio
Brian D.

Same question as I bugged ya with on the other forum: When were these rules written/established?
Splat!!

This code is current to District Rule 22
Published by:
American Legal Publishing Corporation
432 Walnut Street, 12th Floor
Cincinnati, Ohio 45202
Tel: (800) 445-5588
Fax: (513) 763-3562
E-Mail: customerservice@amlegal.com
Internet: http://www.amlegal.com

Adopted at board of directors meeting in April 2005.........
Brian D.

Funny, I'm on the ground floor of that block of buildings at least once a week, visiting the smoke shop and newsstand. Never knew where this stuff came from...

The guv at local and state levels don't exactly update signage with blazing speed do they?
Beekeeper

I don't think anyone is in a hurry to revise the written rules. I conceal carry whenever I go there. I'll be at the Englewood Metropark tomorrow afternoon and will be packing my Glock 35.
Splat!!

No return E-mail from Butlercounty MetroParks .........Yet
Splat!!

Quote:
Dear Mr.



Land Use Policy Item 203.02.04 states the following regarding the possession and/or use of firearms on property owned or controlled by the District.



ITEM 203.02.04: No person, except those authorized by law for non-private use, shall possess, carry on/or about their person, or discharge firearms of any description, including archery equipment or any other dangerous weapon, on property owned or controlled by the District without prior written approval from the District.



If you have any further question please contact me.



Richard L. Doran

Property Administrator

Miami Conservancy District

38 East Monument Avenue

Dayton, Ohio 45402

Phone: 937-223-1278 ext.3219

Fax: 937-223-4730

email: rdoran@miamiconservancy.org

website: www.miamiconservancy.org






--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Brenda Gibson
Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 10:02 AM
To: Rick Doran
Subject: FW: Firearms



Hi Rick, would you be able to respond to this gentleman and copy me on your response please?



Thanks,

Brenda




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [mailto:@cinci.rr.com]
Sent: Monday, July 02, 2007 4:40 PM
To: Brenda Gibson
Subject: Firearms

What are your rules and/or policies regarding open carry of handguns for private citizens within your areas / trails ?



Also please elaborate on concealed carrying of handguns should you have different policies for each method of carry.







Thank You,


Just what I suspected..........Due to many private entities taking over control of state and city properties to maintain under contract........They are enacting no carry laws under private ownership. Lease and ownership fall under the same laws regarding personal property rights.


These E-mails are from the Miami Conservancy District which control the bike trails along the rivers................and who knows what else...

As of right now Metroparks have not responded to my E-mails...
Brian D.

Private entity? I just looked at their website, it says they're a political subdivision of Ohio--like a county park district. They just haven't updated their rules, Splat, and nobody who works there is likely to tell you anything that's not sitting in print in front of them, outta date or not.

Look, the state Liquor Control Board is still issuing those "If you are carrying a firearm in this liquor establishment..." signs with wording that has remained unchanged since, heck, the 1960s or so. Whether in a bar, gas station, or a wine shop, same signs, same wording.
Splat!!

Which ever .......someone needs educated...
Brian D.

Update?
Splat!!

Going to send e-mail to metroparks again................No response from them.

OFCC e-mailed MCD kinda waiting on the response to them.............
Splat!!

Quote:
"Chief M. Broughton" <broughtonm@swohio.twcbc.com>



Quote:
Permitting weapons in our buildings is prohibited as marked on each building. Outside of our buildings citizens may have a ccw on his/her persons as outlined by the State CCW Law and must follow all laws required by the State of Ohio.
----- Original Message -----
From: #####
To: metroparks@butlercountyohio.org
Sent: Monday, July 09, 2007 4:31 PM
Subject: Firearms


What are your rules and/or policies regarding open carry of handguns for private citizens within the metroparks areas?

Also please elaborate on concealed carrying of handguns should you have different policies for each method of carry.


Thank You,
#######


No mention of Open carrying , just CCW .........Is a follow up necessary to clarify??
Splat!!

Is he playing with me or evading??

My last e-mail is first...........
Quote:
Thank you for your prompt reply regarding CCW / CHL regulations within your Metropark areas.
I may have not made it clear in the original e-mail I sent , I am also interested in your regulations within the Metropark areas regarding open carrying of firearms by those citizens without a CCW / CHL.
----- Original Message -----
From: Chief M. Broughton
To: ####
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 11:13 AM
Subject: Re: Firearms


Permitting weapons in our buildings is prohibited as marked on each building. Outside of our buildings citizens may have a ccw on his/her persons as outlined by the State CCW Law and must follow all laws required by the State of Ohio.
----- Original Message -----
From: ####
To: metroparks@butlercountyohio.org
Sent: Monday, July 09, 2007 4:31 PM
Subject: Firearms


What are your rules and/or policies regarding open carry of handguns for private citizens within the metroparks areas?

Also please elaborate on concealed carrying of handguns should you have different policies for each method of carry.


Thank You,
######


The last e-mail he sent me.............

Quote:
The following is a section of the Ohio Revised Code which defines the law.

2923.12 Carrying concealed weapons.
(A) No person shall knowingly carry or have, concealed on the person’s person or concealed ready at hand, any of the following:

(1) A deadly weapon other than a handgun;

(2) A handgun other than a dangerous ordnance;

(3) A dangerous ordnance.

(B) No person who has been issued a license or temporary emergency license to carry a concealed handgun under section 2923.125 or 2923.1213 of the Revised Code or a license to carry a concealed handgun that was issued by another state with which the attorney general has entered into a reciprocity agreement under section 109.69 of the Revised Code shall do any of the following:

(1) If the person is stopped for a law enforcement purpose and is carrying a concealed handgun , fail to promptly inform any law enforcement officer who approaches the person after the person has been stopped that the person has been issued a license or temporary emergency license to carry a concealed handgun and that the person then is carrying a concealed handgun;

(2) If the person is stopped for a law enforcement purpose and if the person is carrying a concealed handgun, knowingly fail to keep the person’s hands in plain sight at any time after any law enforcement officer begins approaching the person while stopped and before the law enforcement officer leaves, unless the failure is pursuant to and in accordance with directions given by a law enforcement officer;

(3) If the person is stopped for a law enforcement purpose, if the person is carrying a concealed handgun, and if the person is approached by any law enforcement officer while stopped, knowingly remove or attempt to remove the loaded handgun from the holster, pocket, or other place in which the person is carrying it, knowingly grasp or hold the loaded handgun, or knowingly have contact with the loaded handgun by touching it with the person’s hands or fingers at any time after the law enforcement officer begins approaching and before the law enforcement officer leaves, unless the person removes, attempts to remove, grasps, holds, or has contact with the loaded handgun pursuant to and in accordance with directions given by the law enforcement officer;

(4) If the person is stopped for a law enforcement purpose and if the person is carrying a concealed handgun, knowingly disregard or fail to comply with any lawful order of any law enforcement officer given while the person is stopped, including, but not limited to, a specific order to the person to keep the person’s hands in plain sight.

(C)(1) This section does not apply to any of the following:

(a) An officer, agent, or employee of this or any other state or the United States, or to a law enforcement officer, who is authorized to carry concealed weapons or dangerous ordnance or is authorized to carry handguns and is acting within the scope of the officer’s, agent’s, or employee’s duties;

(b) Any person who is employed in this state, who is authorized to carry concealed weapons or dangerous ordnance or is authorized to carry handguns, and who is subject to and in compliance with the requirements of section 109.801 of the Revised Code, unless the appointing authority of the person has expressly specified that the exemption provided in division (C)(1)(b) of this section does not apply to the person.

(2) Division (A)(2) of this section does not apply to any person who, at the time of the alleged carrying or possession of a handgun, is carrying a valid license or temporary emergency license to carry a concealed handgun issued to the person under section 2923.125 or 2923.1213 of the Revised Code or a license to carry a concealed handgun that was issued by another state with which the attorney general has entered into a reciprocity agreement under section 109.69 of the Revised Code, unless the person knowingly is in a place described in division (B) of section 2923.126 of the Revised Code.
MeanStreaker

Splat!! wrote:
OFCC e-mailed MCD kinda waiting on the response to them.............


Still waiting on a reply. If I don't hear anything, I'm calling tomorrow.
Lthrnck

I actually called the Chief Ranger here in the Dayton area and brought him up to speed on the new laws... he wasn't very happy about it and said he would check it out and get back to me... Still waiting.. think I will call him tomorrow.
Brian D.

How'd that call to the Ranger ever work out, Lthrnck? And once again, where is Korupt/John K.?
Lthrnck

Well still unable to connect with Korupt.

Got a call from the Chief Ranger and it did not go well.. touched bases with OFCC and we are going to develope a plan to confront this.. Will let you know when I know..
Splat!!

Any thing about MCD..........?? Meanstreaker was checking on that one..
Brian D.

Looks like he got hold of somebody on the phone who actually answered the question. (OFCC forum thread.)
Ken-OH

Splat!! wrote:

Just what I suspected..........Due to many private entities taking over control of state and city properties to maintain under contract........They are enacting no carry laws under private ownership. Lease and ownership fall under the same laws regarding personal property rights.


Following that logic, then the buildings at the State Fair Grounds would be okay for carry when they are leased out to private enterprises (e.g. Equine Affair or Quarter Horse Congress).

Somehow, I doubt that their logic would be consistent.

Ken
Lthrnck

First off... Welcome Ken..

Second, your entirely correct, Logic is a 5 letter word and if you get about 3 letters or one syllable then they get lost.
Ken-OH

Well, many years ago, a lawyer told me "never confuse logic with the law".

Ken
Brian D.

"Bueller? Bueller?"
Brian D.

Updates? Updates? Does anybody even recall what this thread was about?
Splat!!

Shocked Shocked Still here...................... Idea
Lthrnck

I haven't heard anything from the Chief Ranger. I have been a little side tracked with my detention in the City park. Which I think will have some effect on the Chief Ranger later on.
jslack7851

its been a while, anybody still watching this post? Updates?
Brian D.

It seems that some political subdivisions/entities are too stupid and/or stubborn to bring their firearms regulations into compliance with ORC 9.68. (Statewide pre-emption.)

Letters an e-mails have been sent, telephone calls have been made to these cities, park districts, and the like, and it only helps a certain percentage of the time. My belief is that this will never completely stop until the first time a mayor (or other official of equivalent rank) goes to prison and perhaps gets anally raped for flagrant disregard of ORC 9.68
jslack7851

I feel that more organized open carries are necessary. Once a month, different cities / political subdivisions (parks) around the state. The last 'sponsered' OC for me was Northwood. After that, Cleveland. That was miserable. Anybody know an organization that sponsors OC walks any more?
Brian D.

I've always thought the OC walks were useful too. In fact I've suggested something even a bit bolder at OFCC to get our point across...I refer to it as "The Day Of 100 Open Carry Sightings".

The idea would be to pick a city that has been the unfriendliest to OCers and organize an effort to have as many of us as possible, singly or in  groups of two or three, be spotted OC'ing all over the town in question, making sure to be visible enough that the local police get swarmed with calls to their dispatch. Of course in most instances, by the time they'd show up those toters would likely be gone. And if the OCers were still present they'd have audio/video equipment, and of course carefully pointing out that what they were doing was indeed legal. Any arrests of those individuals would very likely make for some expensive payouts in the future of the town in question.

By the next day OFCC (or whatever group did this) could send a press release of sorts to that city, with copies to the local media outlets explaining what had happened, and our willingness to do it again.

By having those individuals (as opposed to one large group) acting in this manner, no parade permit/prior notification to the 'burg would be needed to stay "legit" per local ordinances.

Only problem would be organizing the event outside of a forum that is doubtless monitored by certain gov't officials around Ohio--wouldn't want to tip our hand ahead of time and ruin the nice surprise, would we?  Wink

I've quietly run this idea up the OFCC flagpole in the past without much success, for what it's worth. They did hear me out though, to be fair.
jslack7851

{}
Brian D.

COL had a disagreement with some of the OFCC honchos about certain of his posts being deleted from the forum. Also, he was at odds with them in regards to how they'd helped "handle" one of the harassment cases of an OC'er cases in NE Ohio. Specifically, the one where the guy who was carrying openly in a flap holster in/around a coffee shop got detained/arrested by the gendarmes as if he'd been carrying concealed. The OFCC lawyers that jumped in hadn't, at least according to COL, done a very good job in brokering the guy's deal, it  involved taking a plea bargain rather than fighting his arrest and charges fully.

Color Of law made his displeasure known to OFCC while at the Picnic In The Park, and basically vowed not to come back to the forums over there.

That case's outcome sure didn't make a very good precedent-setter for open OR concealed carriers in my opinion.
jslack7851

back on thread

what ever happened to the park for harassing that guy with his dog in Mill Hollow Park? Did anybody talk to the Park and suggest that their policy of "no guns" was in violation of State Law? Last I heard was that 'as soon as their done with Cincinnati, they were going to Lorain county.
Brian D.

Guess you're talking to me?  Laughing Heck, I dunno. We need some more Open Carry walks like in Northwood, but only if they're well-attended and we use them to poke these jurisdictions in the eye, publicly, by our comments to the media. Maybe even confront the city/park officials directly, out in the open. (In a non-violent fashion, of course.)

OC events which draw a half dozen marchers make the cause look pretty dang stoopid, in my opinion anyhow.
jslack7851

Its hard to find more than a dozen that would OC. If its not a sanctioned event by some organization. PPl don't want to or are afraid of LEO harassment. There was a guy in Lorain that was going to organize a picnic in one of the parks there. I sent him a list of all the parks, and that was the last I had heard anything about it. Swept under the rug. I've tried to goat guys into open carrying, some success, some not. Bottom line: guys won't OC as long as cops scare them, until more stand up for their rights cops won't stand down. Also, while I got your attention (hehe), when I wrote that e mail to that nasty lady in Lima, I was chastised for listing my affiliations with gun rights organizations. However, that was the reason given to me that the Lima officials quit talking to OFCC big shots. Now get this: Not talking to OFCC big shots is the only reason given for organizing a OC walk somewhere. I never heard of a OC walk in Lima, or anything else about that story.   As far as my open carry in the park goes, I wished someone would of wrote Mr. Larry Peterson a nasty letter, NO ONE said anything to the parks or to Peterson. The parks haven't changed their rules and afaik Peterson is still making false 911 calls on OC'ers.

Hay man, good chatting with you. Enjoy your day!
Splat!!

OC is not correct and most won't fight...........They have been deballed. Afraid we have lost , an offensive is required to drive the point home until the fight is taken to them we are just sitting and spinning.......We either force them to ban open carry or force them to accept it, no other options you will not win the fight fighting them on their terms the game is stacked......Must play outside the box to win....
Brian D.

Splat, like a hermit on a deserted island, I am still here.

Never really brought this up before but my brother OC's--he's been too lazy these past five + years to go get a carry license. He lives in Butler County, in what is maybe called the Indian Springs area. Anyhow, because he resides outside of any city he shoots in the backyard sometimes. This  led the police officer who lives nearby to come and meet him. Long story short because my brother is so pleasant and a great handyman and overall neighbor, he's ended up becoming friendly with not only this county deputy, but several of the other coppers in that vicinity.

By now a few years have passed and none of them--or other area cops-- even take notice of his open carry these days.

Living one county south, my experience with open carry has been quite a bit  different, as you might imagine. I haven't been arrested or even really messed with by the various PD's, but boy do I get tired of "educating" these officers, especially when I suspect many of them already are fully aware that open carry is legal.

Only once was a LEO outright unfriendly though, mentioning the possibility of an "inducing panic" charge. This struck me as so silly (because there was hardly anybody around) that I asked him just how scared I made him with my big bad gun. His partner laughed at him and maybe got the inkling that I knew that particular ORC section better than they did, and let the matter drop.

Just some random musings on my part...hope you don't mind.

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